Member
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎13-08-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

I couldn't agree with you more Chirpy! In that if you think about how many women *do* eat dairy (my mother and late grandmother, for example) and DO NOT develop BC-it cannot possibly be that dairy is such an important predisposing factor. Studies would have to demonstrate that dairy is an important contributing factor (for certain women)-with other predisposing factors, before we can really take this "opinion" as fact.  

Sorry to hear you had such a stressful year prior to your diagnosis. I have no doubt that stress plays a part, and am sure it did for me too. xxx

Member
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎24-09-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Hi Maria Thanks for that. Very interesting. There are so many books recommending cutting out dairy that it is tempting, especially as there are plenty of alternatives, but take your point about nutrients Appletree. I really believe that stress played a part in my cancer too as there were a lot of difficult things going on the year before I got it. x
Member
Posts: 200
Registered: ‎13-04-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

[ Edited ]

Hello Chirpy Bird

 

I agree with what Maria has said; it is important to take note that many on this forum have eliminated/severely reduced dairy products from their diets for many years yet have still ended up with ER +ve BC. If there really were a significant connection between BC and dairy products, this would not be happening.

 

You say 'it might be worth not taking the risk' of consuming dairy products if you are highly ER +ve. There is not, as yet, any reliable evidence for a link between British or EU dairy produce and breast cancer, so there is no acknowledged risk. If any breast cancer patient were to cut out dairy produce, simply because they believed they were cutting down the risk of BC, they could be subjecting themselves to a much higher risk of severe osteoporosis and serious health problems re bone health (especially if they were taking endocrine therapy), as well as developing other health problems related to an unbalanced diet. 

 

Here is some reliable information from Cancer Research UK.

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/food-controversies#fo...

 

Extract:

 

Milk and Dairy Products

 

Milk and dairy are good sources of calcium and protein which are needed as part of a healthy, balanced diet. Calcium is important for teeth and bone health.

 

Studies looking into the link between cancer and dairy products have not given clear results. There is evidence that dairy products could reduce the risk of bowel cancer, but we cannot say for sure that this is the case. There is no strong evidence linking dairy products to any other types of cancer. We need further research to find out more about the links between dairy products and cancer risk.

 

Hormones in milk

 

In some countries, a hormone called bovine somatotrophin (BST) is used to speed up or increase the production of milk or meat. In the UK and the rest of Europe, farmers are banned from using this hormone, and the import of meat from countries, including the US, where this hormone is used is also banned. This ban is on animal welfare grounds and not because there is any proven effect on human health. Independent health bodies including the European Union Scientific Committee have reviewed the evidence on BST and found it does not pose any harm to human health.

 

The Food Standards Agency regulates the content of dairy products, including milk. This set of standards makes sure these products are safe to use.

                                              -------------------------

The natural hormones produced by cows, sheep and goats are not a threat to humans. Our threat comes from the oestrogen we produce ourselves which, post menopausally, comes from our fat cells, hence the importance of taking Aromatase Inhibitors, or Tamoxifen (which has a different action from the AIs).

 

There is plenty of evidence that cancer is a serious risk to people who are obese, drink too much alcohol and smoke.

 

Eat a balanced diet without overdoing anything, keep your weight down, take regular exercise, keep your spirits up with some sensible treats, and remember a very great deal is down to chance.

Member
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎13-08-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Hi Chirpybird,

 

Apologies for "chirping in" Smiley Happy but I think the point is that even those of us who *are* ER + and who *have* been dairy free (completely dairy-free-no cheating) for 8+ years, have still developed ER+ BC. And so, for me, I can't see how my dairy-free diet has helped me in any way. I do believe though that for each of us, there are a combo. of factors that predispose us to developing BC, and for me, I think it was my iodine treatment and stress, and clearly my dairy-free diet has not served as a protective mechanism against the disease. 

xxx

Member
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎24-09-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Apple tree I agree with what you say, but surely any lactating cow or sheep or goat or whatever must be full of their own hormones to produce their milk. I don’t know how similar animal hormones are to human ones & whether they can link to our ER receptors, but might it be worth not taking the risk if you are highly ER positive? Just a thought. x
Member
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎13-08-2018

Re: Dairy or not to dairy....

[ Edited ]

Hi Whitelily, 

 

I hear you loud and clear and I agree that having " a bit of yoghurt or milk from time to time" DOES NOT mean "dairy-free" I *am* completely dairy-free. I check labels. I don't eat yoghurt. I don't eat ice cream. I eat Alpro (soya based) and vegan "ice-cream". I eat vegan cheese. I don't eat goat's, sheep's, cow's...anythingSmiley Happy. I don't do animalSmiley Happy. I do eat eggs.

 

I am genuinely dairy-free, which is why I am not convinced of the link between dairy and cancer, but more importantly, I agree that there are a multitude of contribting factors, that might vary-woman to woman. I, too, think stress has played a part in my development of the disease, but most definitely the iodine treatment I had (there is an established link between radioactive iodine treatment for the thyroid and the long-term development of cancer)-not specific to thyroid, but any kind of cancer.

xxx

 

Member
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎09-06-2016

Re: Dairy or not to dairy....

Hi Marla just out of interest when you say you have not had dairy since 2010 is that completely? I am just wondering as milk is in absolutely everything and unless everyone looks carefully at food labels we are still consuming it without realising. I know someone who said she had cut out dairy but still had yoghurt everyday but because she wasn't drinking cows milk she thought that was enough. Some people still continue to eat ice cream or cheese it is still dairy. It is a minefield and very difficult none of us know for sure what caused the cancer and it is very difficult to know what diet we should be following to help prevent a recurrence. I have cut down drastically on my dairy intake but I watch everything else I eat and am mostly plant based with small amount of meat and fish.  I have a dog so exercise and walk more than I ever did but I also think stress plays a huge part especially in my diagnosis. I was extremely stressed in the run up to my diagnosis and have looked at ways to address that since. Cancer is never due to one thing and we need to all look at all parts of our lives in general x 

Member
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎13-08-2018

Dairy or not to dairy....

[ Edited ]

I find this "to dairy or not to dairy" debate so interesting, because as someone who was recently diagnosed with BC Grade 2, Estrogen +, and who has not eaten dairy since 2010, and has not eaten meat since 1983, I cannot see how my diet has helped *at all*. I eat *a lot* of fish.

 

I realise 2010 is not that long ago but am quite confident I've not had my cancer (undiagnosed) since then-but of course one can never be sure. 

 

I *am*, however, more confident that the radioactive iodine that I had for my thyroid disorder (2010) has played more of a role in my BC than anything else. We do not have a family history of BC. 

 

Since my thyroid treatment I've put on 20 pounds. I'm on Levothyroxine but it does not give me the same energy levels as my normal thyroid gland did. It's a farceSmiley Happy. It does not replace (like for like) what your thyroid gland did-your thyroid is the petrol in a car. Without it, you don't move. You feel sluggish, no energy, etc. etc. Exercise is more difficult and I can't do the workouts I used to be able to. It's absolutely awful. I was a size 8-10 in 2006, I'm now a 12-14. And it's not because I eat crap or drink excessively-I eat really well with the occasional treat and rarely drink alcohol.  

 

From all the postings I've read it would seem that the most consistently agreed upon fact is the role that exercise and a healthy weight plays. And presumably a good diet goes hand in hand with weight loss-whatever the diet is. 

 

I'm not a doctor, but am someone who lives with thyroid disease managed by a drug that is supposed to help boost my metabolism and is absolutely useless.   

xxx

Member
Posts: 260
Registered: ‎16-08-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Well said @ appletree I totally agree 👍
Member
Posts: 200
Registered: ‎13-04-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Speaking as a scientist myself, there is an absolute load of rubbish on the Internet of a pseudo-scientific nature. 'Researching the Internet' is likely to lead you to an overload of misinformation and some very poor decisions.

 

For instance, there is absolutely no reliable evidence that dairy products are bad for you if you are ER +ve. On the contrary; you need sources of Ca for bone strength. No link between breast cancer and dairy products has been found by any reliable scientific group. You will find plenty of sites where claims are made that it does, but if you assess these sites carefully, you will find no supporting evidence of a reliable nature. You will also find that the authors of such sites are not, themselves, bona fide research scientists, attached to reputable universities. 

 

If you want to restrict your diet that is your business, but please be aware you could be omitting foods that would be good for you, so damaging your health. By posting spurious 'research' advice here you could be encouraging other people to worry unnecessarily and to have false confidence in highly misleading information.

Member
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎04-08-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Hi all

I'm 62 years young, very active, walking 10 mile hill walks once a week, dancing modern jive once a month, walk into town and back every other day, 5 miles and not in anyway over weight. I've never smoked and very rarly drink, bit boring really. But doing all this did not prevent me from having a TIA ten years ago and getting breast cancer, grade 2 invasive, ER+3 this year.

 

I've spent hours reaserching on different foods and on the hormone treatment after surgery. 

 

I've read the research done in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America and the UK on diet and hormone treatment and at the moment this is the conclusion they all seem to have in common, to a degree.

 

The jury is still out on soya producing oestrogen. Tests on rats and mice are showing a slight risk of dairy producing oestrogen and a very slight risk of cancer sells growing quicker. We are not rats and mice and there are still ongoing investigations with cancer volunteers regarding both soya and oestrogen.

 

I've taken myself off soya and dairy, so my body has a chance, but this is my own decision and I would not want anyone else to think this is right or wrong for them. 

 

I now drink Oaty milk which I love and rice milk. Eat goat cheese, in very small quantities and the same with goat yogurt. Eat lots of green veg and have cut back a lot on potatoes. There is some research into Flax seed that shows it inhibits the cancer cells from feeding on oestrogen and also with the herb Ashwaganda, which I've been taking. The Flax seed in powder powder form is more suitable than the seed itself, the seed passing through the body. I only eat chicken and fish now and have a lot more fruit, also make my own veg smoothies to drink.

 

I have decided, after researching, not to have the hormone treatment, now, or ever, if changing what I eat and what supplements I take gives me a chance of preventing the cancer coming back, for a few more years, I'm prepared to try, but I have no illusions, at some time it will return, regardless if I have hormone treatment or not. The main thing is to think and feel positive about what you decide and positivity will help in a big way.

 

I'd say, don't take the word of anyone, until you have spent hours researching and it's not a case of one size fits all.

Member
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎21-01-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

I found this online which refers to man boobs.  It is interesting:

 

https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/7-ways-to-reduce-man-boobs-decrease-estrogen-levels

Highlighted
Member
Posts: 322
Registered: ‎30-09-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

More recent research shows that dairy isn’t as good for our bones as we are led to believe and can actually cause our bones to leak more calcium, vegetables especially greens and exercise are better for us.

Member
Posts: 71
Registered: ‎18-02-2016

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

It's worth bearing in mind that if you're ER+ and on Anastrozole, dairy will help avoid osteoporosis...

Member
Posts: 322
Registered: ‎30-09-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Congratulations Fairy Dust, that’s great news, well done you! Even though I ate well before, especially compared to what I see other people eat, there’s no way I would change what I do now even if I was told they got my diagnosis wrong, because I also feel so much better! That’s really fantastic about the chemo, while I don’t think you can truly say until you’re faced with the decision, I know I wouldn’t automatically say yes to it either, would want to try other more natural remedies first and see what happened, then at least if I had to have it I would know I’d tried everything else first. Also, good to hear that from the doctor! I’m really happy for you, all the very best to you, Kate xx

Member
Posts: 124
Registered: ‎28-12-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Yes, Whitelily, the Jane Plant book was my starting point. Xxx
Member
Posts: 124
Registered: ‎28-12-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

[ Edited ]

That's amazing, Kate. 

 

 

I got my post op results on Friday and they were the best news I've had in 6 months. I had 2 invasive ductal carcinomas, 1grade 1 and 1grade 2 and a large area of DCIS. The mastectomy took it all, but on examination, the grade 2 area has disappeared!!! The Oncotype test came back low as well so no chemo. I'm so pleased I changed my diet. It was 6 months from them finding it to them taking it out. I took letrizole for three weeks just before the op as they realised I'd had no treatment. The doc said that wouldn't have worked that quick and asked me what I'd been doing. 

 

Good news, yes but there's no way I'm ever going back to how I ate before. The benefits have been too great. Good wishes Kate xxx

Community Champion
Posts: 1,573
Registered: ‎19-04-2017

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

[ Edited ]

This matrix suggests some risk associated with dairy and breast cancer. I think it isn't just oestrogen it's also IGF-1 and cholesterol risk which are bad for cancer.  https://wcrf.org/dietandcancer/interactive-cancer-risk-matrix

 

I quit dairy as soon as I was diagnosed, over a year ago.

Member
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎09-06-2016

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

Good point Daisy. If only it were as simple as just cutting out dairy. Having said that I do think there is a connection to dairy and I have cut down on it a lot since I was diagnosed but breast cancer is complicated and there are so many other contributing factors. I do know of other women who have been dairy free and still developed breast cancer.  As Jane Plant said in her book it is a bit like a slot machine where the 3 lemons have to line up. After a cancer diagnosis it is good to look at all areas of your life. Diet is only one part x 

Member
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎12-05-2018

Re: Cutting out dairy if oestrogen positive

I've been dairy free practically all my life. Not a lifestyle choice or anything, I just can't stand the taste of milk, cheese, cream. I haven't got a particularly sweet tooth, so don't really go for chocolate. (I'm no saint, if you try and share my crisps or myy wine, I will plot your untimely demise Smiley Very Happy)

 

 

And I still ended up with Oestrogen positive breast cancer. Just saying.